Andrew: Hey there Freedom Fighters, my name is Andrew Warner, I’m the founder of Mixergy.com, home of the Ambitious Upstart. And here at the home of the Ambitious Upstart, I believe that there are two kinds of entrepreneurs: those who deal with inner doubt, and those who lie to themselves and pretend that they never have any inner doubt.
This interview is for the truth tellers; the people who are aware of their inner issues and want to work to overcome them. That’s what this interview is about. That’s what Samantha Alford interviewed me about for her website, which is called WomenInBusinessPodCast.com.
I liked the interview that she did with me so much that I asked her for permission to publish it right here on Mixergy. I got it, here it is, and as always it is sponsored by Walker Corporate Law. Let me get his logo right here, there it is. Scott Edward Walker is the entrepreneurs’ lawyer.
That means that if you’re running a business that is all yours, if you’re running a startup that is new or young, and you need someone to help you out with legal advice, with business advice, with a structure that will allow you to eventually sell or raise money…he’s the guy to go to. Go to WalkerCorporateLaw.com. Alright, take it away, Samantha.
Samantha: Thanks, Andrew. Thank you so much for joining us today at the Women in Business Podcast. I really appreciate your time.
Andrew: Glad to be here!
Samantha: Andrew, I was really interested in having you share with our audience some of the program and the learning that you’re sharing with your audience and with your followers in relation to the True Mind Program.
And the reason for that is, I believe that women in particular, and there is certainly research that supports, that women in particular have a mentality that holds us back in a lot of ways in terms of our corporate careers.
And what that means is that, for example, where women actually will be applying for a role or looking towards future opportunities, they will tend to look at the list of requirements and talk about what they don’t meet and that will hold them back as opposed to men who will typically say: “Well, there’s a few things I haven’t got experience in there, and I’ll get going.”
So what I wanted to do today was explore with that context of women in the corporate world. Your True Mind Program, we’ll get into in a moment, but what I wanted to do was, perhaps, give the women in our network a bit of an idea of your journey. You have launched a number of entrepreneurial activities in your career, if you like, or your entrepreneurial career that have been extraordinarily successful. And you’ve started at times with nothing.
Samantha: And what I want to do is, I guess, is help the women in our audience and our listeners understand, if you like, the journey that you’ve taken, which is a different path in some ways, and yet as far as leadership goes, you’ve really paved the way for leadership in the entrepreneurial space, and you must have also come across your own counter mind and true mind issues along the way. So just your thoughts…
Andrew: It’s interesting that you talk about these limitations. I’ve never thought of myself as someone with limitations. I was someone, especially not self-imposed, I was someone who read biographies of successful people and said: “I’m going to be one of them!” I read magazine articles about what was going on in the world, and I said: “When I graduate from school I will be one of them!” And I started my company, and I remember…
Sony called me up and said: “We want to buy ads in your email newsletters.” That’s where we started. And I thought at the time, that sixty dollars was what I should be charging per day. And I thought: “Great! I will one day be big!” And this guy on the phone said: “Andrew, you have to think a little bit bigger. I’m going to think bigger on your behalf. I’m going to buy all of the ads that you have for sale.” And he bought ads from me at $7500.
I’d never seen a check for $7500 before! He lays it on me! I still, I think somewhere I still have a copy of it, because I was so amazed by it. Because it said Sony at the top, $7500, they bought ads, and I thought…
Samantha: So sorry, sir, you thought that you were someone that was really go-getting, and going to achieve everything you wanted…and yet, you put a price on there that was $60 and they offered you seven and a half thousand, is that right?
Andrew: Yeah. And then the guy said: “I’ll take..” I think he bought a months’ worth of ads plus some or three months, I forget the amount was. What I remember was how blown away I was by that check. I remember showing it off to a friend saying: “Look! I’m really in business now!”
And then at that point I thought: “Still…great! I’m the no-limitation person. If I can get seventy-five hundred dollars from Sony for just a few ads I can grow this business even further. I have no self-imposed limitations! I thought that was for chumps! I’m no chump!”
And then I remember getting into a car with someone, he was another entrepreneur, and he just started telling me: “Hey you know Andrew, you know about this thing called a “Co-reg’?” And I said: “What do you mean a “Co-reg’?” And he started telling me how when someone signed up for his email newsletter he gave that person an opportunity to join other email newsletters.
All it is is while they’re registering for newsletter. Andrew, he said, they could register for other people’s newsletters and those other people would pay you a buck per. And that price, that amount, that revenue could be a $100,000 a month. And at the time I don’t know where we were but that $100,000 suddenly felt like, hey this guy could do it in a month and I’m thinking a $100,000 a year some day and that’s what makes me a go-getter? He’s doing–he’s talking in a month.
And so I started to make phone call and I remember I made call after call and was rejected and rejected and I finally found someone who was willing to buy Co-reg ads from me. Their first check–this is a woman named Susan– her check to me was for three hundred plus thousand dollars. I never imagined that. And then after that it was for millions of dollars and I have still have copies of those.
In fact, I lost those checks but one of my employees from then heard that I was looking it. I was showing her, look, at the time–Crystal, we are going somewhere. Here’s the check. I copied it. She saved a copy of it and she was able to email it to me. But I wouldn’t have had that, because all I was was thinking about this limitation, limitation, limitation that I wasn’t even aware of. And it wasn’t until someone said hey, here’s an issue, here’s another horizon that I started to realize I could go for it.
Samantha: So did you almost get the proof before you got the belief?
Andrew: Once I saw that someone else could do it. Once I was aware that I was thinking too small I realized that there was a whole other world. But, if he wouldn’t have shown me, if either of those guys wouldn’t have shown me, I wouldn’t have even known it was available to me and so I fine that a lot in my life it happens, I find that there are a lot of self-imposed limitations that I’m not even aware of.
Samantha: And how did you become conscious of that. So over time you must have faced that again and again and again as your business has grown, because your success is truly extraordinary and for someone starting out in your space must feel very unreachable. But how did those limiting beliefs or constrains or counter-mind how did that actually register with you when you actually became aware that it was holding you back?
Andrew: It didn’t register as you aren’t worthy of a million dollar check. It didn’t register that way. I would have said of course, everyone can do it. You know all the rhetoric. It registered in a way that said one day you can earn a million dollars. One day when you’re forty you can make it big and get it. And an understanding that was behind it that was never fully articulated in my head. Like
I used to think I am shy and so I wouldn’t go and talk to people. It wasn’t the sense of, no wait, you just don’t know what to say or you think that they’re not going to find you interesting enough or important enough and that’s why you’re not talking to them. That’s the problem. The mind messes with us.
And I call it the counter-mind because we want to do important things in life and then that part of our mind comes and works against us. It counters it. I want to go and meet new people at a networking event because I feel like I’ve got a new business and things are good. My counter-mind says it’s not big enough. You’re not ready. These people all know each other. They don’t want to talk to you. They’re busy. What-ev-bah-bah-bah. It’s a counter-mind. That’s what it is. It counters you.
And most people, if I bring this up, will not recognize that they have it and I get it because at the time when I was starting my first company I didn’t recognize that my mind was telling me that I couldn’t get a million dollar check or I couldn’t even get a $7500 check. But those limitations are there.
And what I suggest is, if there’s something that you can’t do, instead of doing what most people will do which is–I love my phone–they’ll reach for their phone and go there must be an app out there that does it. Or must be a blog out there that does it, right? There must be someone out there I could hire. If only I had money then I could hire them.
What I suggest is at that point, instead of reaching for the app, stop and say, what do I believe about this? Really get honest with yourself and often it means having someone else help you do it. Because remember, for me, I couldn’t sit in a room by myself and say why am I not earning seventy five hundred dollars? I would’ve immediately said because you’re too young, you’re too small, you’re too new at this company. One day you can get to it.
So sometimes you need someone else to help you pull those thoughts out. But when you pull those thoughts out you realize you have thoughts like I’m too new. I shouldn’t earn seventy five hundred dollars. I didn’t pay my dues. I shouldn’t be able to talk to Sony. I didn’t this or I can’t that. That’s when you start to realize there are these other thoughts in your head. You know? That’s what it is.
And if it was a computer, like I used to use a Windows PC that would keep getting buggy and it would keep needing to be defragmented and need to have viruses removed. I would just put a piece of software in there and it would remove it for me. Help me find all those little things that are causing problems. In our minds sometimes it takes another person to say, “Let me help you pull that out.”
Samantha: And I think for the women in our audience it’s also exactly what you said there is they have already achieved a certain level of success. They already believe consciously perhaps that they’re capable of doing whatever they set their mind to and they are already at levels.
I mean, we, the numbers at levels at, for example, the group managing director or the 2IC, and the executive suite but not the CEO and board levels is really enormous and yet we’re still holding ourselves back. So they believe that they don’t have those beliefs because they already got so far and they’ve already overcome so much of that.
Andrew: That’s the problem that the further you go ahead almost the more you, the more blind you are to it. And the fact even before you even get to the starting line if you’re someone who feels like you want to do something in life, if you’re someone who’s aware of all the potential that you have almost inherently in that is a blind spot to your limitations because you believe you’re aware and going somewhere.
Aware of what possibilities there are and believe you’re going somewhere and those limitations are there. My friends who didn’t go to high school and read about Warren Buffett and Bill Gates they knew that they had these issues where they felt they weren’t good at making sales calls. They knew that they needed to work on their ability to accept that there was more potential in their lives. I wouldn’t have known that because I thought… I think big. We have, the achievers have a bigger blind spot to it.
Samantha: And this is the thing, I mean, I know a lot of women that get to these levels and they, and when I ask them to even to talk to other, to talk on the podcast and so on, the first thing they say is: “What would I say that’s inspirational?” “Well, I need to go away and think about something that’s worth saying, I need to go away and think about-“?
And they’re already doubting their ability to lead when they actually lead every day. And they talk about counter-mind thoughts like: “I’m not ready.” “I’m a fraud.” What about when they, you know-
Samantha: women in the most senior executive roles thinking when are they going to actually learn that I’m a fraud, I don’t know what I’m doing. All of this sort of negative stuff. So how, so you’ve mentioned one way, which is someone else needs to almost bring that out of you; which is one of the reasons I’ve joined your program.
Andrew: Thank you.
Because I feel that someone else needs to help me, help bring that out of me, and perhaps identify counter-mind thoughts that I don’t even know exist. And I know, I must admit since becoming aware of the program and since joining your webinar last week and joining the program I’m, my God, I’ve been aware of so many counter-minded thoughts it’s not funny. How does someone essentially address the counter-mind? Does it go away? Do you shut it up? Do you turn up the dial? How does it, how do you fix that?
Andrew: You know, I don’t know if we could ever make it go away completely. To be honest it’s fairly, I’m still curious. I don’t have all the answers for it. What I have noticed is if we work with people and start to extract those thoughts that, that awareness of the individual thoughts almost makes it go away.
If I would’ve been aware back then that it’s not just that I’m shy, it’s that I feel that no one in the networking event wants to talk to me. Just that awareness would of clued me into the fact that wait- it’s a networking event. They’re going there to meet new people.
It’s the awareness of these thoughts that helps it go away. It’s the awareness also of the framework of just sometimes giving it a name, calling it a counter-mind helps you identify it. That when I start to talk about this issue of the counter-mind with other people and then I have to write something that’s tough for me to write or I have to make a call that’s tough, or ask someone to do something that I feel like, “Well, why am I asking them to do it?” “Who am I to tell them what to do?”
I immediately realize, hey wait, that’s the counter-mind talking and it goes away. And so, there are a bunch of different things to do. I hope some of these that we’ve talked about will help. Having someone else help draw it out, being aware of it in general, knowing that it isn’t true, being aware of the framework that we have in our minds that we have these counter- mind thoughts will help them go away.
Samantha: And you mentioned identifying the true thoughts, or the beliefs. So you talked about earlier when you’re thinking about that, “So, I’m a fraud”, you know, “When are they going to find that I’m a fraud?” And you talked about identifying the beliefs or the truth in that. What do you mean by that?
Andrew: So what I mean is actually that the counter-mind is often a liar. The counter-mind will tell me, “You don’t want to go into that networking event because no one wants to talk to you.” Right? That’s a lie. People come to networking event, they may not want to love me, do business with me, but they want to, at least, know me or at just check-in to see if I’m anyone that’s interesting, at least.
So the counter-mind lies, and we give it all this attention. The problem is there’s another voice in our head – another aspect of our beings, our thinking, that I call “the true mind”, that is telling the truth. Hey, if you go across the street into that networking event, people want to at least meet you.
If you, at least, try to sell and you fail, you’re going to learn something that you can use in the next sale, or you’re going to feel that the more sales you attempt to make, the more you’ll actually close. That’s the truth, but we don’t give it enough attention.
So we pay more attention to the liar, not enough attention to the truth teller. I want us, I want myself, I want the you, I want the person that’s listening to us, to spend more time thinking about those true mind thoughts, and giving those true mind thoughts expression in our lives. For that, too, we have to be aware of what they are.
Samantha: And do you think that by identifying that – let’s take the networking event, for example – and realizing that the truth is, people are there to meet people. Then it actually opens your mind to ask the right questions about, “Okay, how do I do that well?”, “How do I make it easy for them to meet people?”, which takes the focus off of you and the perception of you as an individual. You’re actually thinking about, “How can I do that successfully, but actually make it better for the other person, as well?” You start asking the right questions.
Andrew: The questions are a big aspect, a big part of it. Actually, you’re asking me: how can we be aware of these true mind thoughts when it comes to these topics that you’re talking about?
Samantha: Yeah, so if we think about, for example, the woman that is going for this promotion. She’s thinking, “you need experience leading groups greater than 300 people”, “you need experience with this, that, and the other.” There’s a few things that they might have experience with budgets, et cetera.
They’re thinking, “Well, I don’t have that so I’m not good enough to go for that job. I shouldn’t even apply.” rather than thinking about things that they do in fact have, and knowing that there are other candidates that don’t have everything as well. So, it’s worth just putting a hand up, and creating a contact, and a network, and that kind of thing.
Andrew: I’m looking to see. . . I think I’ve got. . . I want to find a specific example to show you how others have done this. Because what I’ve found is that when someone says, “I need to have experience speaking to 250 – is that what you said, 250 people, for example? . . .
Samantha: Right, yeah.
Andrew: When we question that thought, we realize, no, that is not even true. The person who they’re trying to work with is not looking for someone who has spoken in front of 250 people. That’s where we start to question that counter-mind thought and it goes away.
Another interesting thing is, when I push the person who I’m working with, and I test this idea out. . . I did, I don’t know how many one-on-one coaching calls just to test it and see if it works and get real feedback.
And what I often would discover is a blind spot to a time when they spoke to maybe not 250 people, but 200 people. They think that they’re not good speaking in public, but if I push them, they remember, “Oh yeah, just three months ago I. . .”
I spoke with one person, just yesterday, who was eager for me to do a coaching call with them, because in within hours he was going to give a presentation. When I asked him what his counter-mind thoughts were, it was “I don’t know how to give a good presentation, I’m not good at giving presentations.” So, we diffused those thoughts, we challenged them, and they went away.
Later on, we got to the true mind part. I said, “Did you ever give a presentation?” He said, “Oh yeah! I gave a presentation that got me funded. It brought me to the U. S., to this group that I’m now going to give another presentation to. So, of course I know how to give presentations!”
But we turn a blind eye to that, and we belittle that truth. The truth of him giving a presentation – if not for our conversation, he would’ve belittled it. He would’ve said, “Ah, that was just one time. Ah, I didn’t.” He wouldn’t have even remembered it, and if he did, he would’ve belittled it. We belittle the true mind. We glorify the counter-mind. It needs to be the opposite. We need to start to diffuse that counter-mind.
We need to give the truth more exposure in our heads, and we can’t feel. I say that to most people, and they start to feel a little too arrogant. “Is it arrogant if I spend a little bit of time thinking about all the things that I did well?”, “Is it arrogant if I spend a little bit of time. . .” – it’s not arrogance. It’s the truth!
Samantha: Australians have an expression called “tall poppy”, and we have this mentality that it’s not cool to promote yourself or talk positively about yourself. We have this thing where we, if someone. . . they’re a tall poppy, and we cut them down. It is embedded in our culture for that exact reason.
That’s exactly what you’re talking about, is recognizing this humility that we’re expected to have. But, as a result, we’re holding ourselves back. We, as a culture, hold ourselves back because we don’t want others to think that we think we’re better than we are, and all of this. So that’s part of our counter-mind culture.
Andrew: Thinking better than we are is many steps beyond what we’re talking about. I’m just saying, recognize what you have. I mean, if you’re really going to give a presentation to a group of people, you should recognize that you have the ability to give a presentation. That’s not arrogance. That’s recognizing the asset that you have that’s necessary. You know.
Samantha: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Andrew: So that’s what we’re talking about here and I couldn’t find his stuff here yet but I will look. And I’m trying not to say too much about his specific case, or anyone else, because I want.
Samantha: Yes. Yes. I understand.
Andrew: You’re going meet them in the program and I don’t want you to get too much detail about them. I want you to be aware that there are other people who go through this. We still, in business, we will now start to talk about our failures. Not much, but we start to talk about them.
And because we talk about our failures, other people start to realize it’s okay to fail. Other people start to realize it’s part of the process. No, Instagram wasn’t a hit right away, they had a failed first version, they changed and then they became Instagram. We start to recognize it as part of the process, and when we have a failure, we see it as an opportunity to course correct. And that’s the value of talking openly about failure. Something that’s happening more and more today.
Andrew: We don’t yet talk about that inner critic. We don’t yet talk about the stuff that you said, and I’m willing to stand up and be the first person to do it publicly, or maybe one of the first, and the more we do it, the more comfortable we’ll be with our own insecurities, and when we’re comfortable recognizing them, we can deal with it. If I’m not recognizing that failure is an option, I’m not dealing with it properly.
Samantha: And we are not helping other people succeed. All we’re doing is making success more remote. By talking about it, it’s like this dirty little secret, that even successful people have fears and counter-mind thoughts and things that hold them back. By not talking about it we’re making it more remote. And I’m so excited about your program.
Can you tell us a bit, it sounds like there’s quite a structure to your program. Can you tell us a bit about that? I’d really love some of our listeners to become familiar with the program, and to be honest, I’d really love them all to join your program because I think it is something that’s holding us back, not just on an individual basis, but as a collective, you know, women all around the world are being held back by this issue.
Andrew: Well, I’ll be honest and say that there is no way for anyone who’s not, at least, a little bit involved to get involved more, but I will give my email address as email@example.com. Just because you who are listening can’t sign up, doesn’t mean that I don’t care about you, doesn’t mean that I don’t want to hear from you.
So if you’re having an issue around this, email me and we’ll talk. But having said that, I think that it means that it’s more important to talk about what the process has been.
Andrew: First thing we do is find one area to focus on, right? One area, like I’m giving a presentation and my counter-mind starts going crazy. I’m about to ask for a promotion and my insecurity is telling me who are you. I’m about to do, to make phone calls, and for some reason I’m procrastinating. Maybe the procrastination is caused by counter, by this counter-mind issue. Pick one area. And actually, frankly, write it down.
When I work with people, we use a Google Doc so that I can write it down and they can write it down and we can see it. The next step is, list all those counter-mind thoughts. What is going on in your head around it? Really be open with yourself.
And you’ll be a little bit scared by some of those thoughts that you can’t believe that it’s in there. But as soon as you get them out you’ll go, that is all there was? And it’s kind of like when we were kids and we were afraid that there was a monster in our closet and maybe our parent would walk us over to the closet and say, look there’s no monster. And it goes away.
Andrew: And so, that’s one of the first steps.
Samantha: So just identifying them, makes you realize, in many ways, how ridiculous they are.
Samantha: And those that you haven’t realized, are so ridiculous. I mean, as I said, my mind in the last week has been recording every counter-mind thought I’ve had. And even if you can’t dismiss it as ridiculous, you can actually make a conscious point to ignore it, or move past it.
Andrew: Well, first of all, just recognizing, hey it’s a counter mind thought, it’s something that’s messing with me, helps too.
Andrew: But the next thing we found is that questioning it will make it go, will, will take the ones that aren’t going away easily, and make them go away. Just asking something like, is it true. So remember, earlier you said what if someone has a potential promotion and she’s told, her counter-mind says, you have to have spoken in front of a group of 350 people.
If I were to have a conversation with this person, the first question I’d ask is, is it true that you have to have spoken in front of 250, 350, 150 people? Often she’ll say, you know, I just kind of think that you need to speak in front of some people, but I don’t even know if that’s true. And definitely not necessarily in front of this number that I made up. So questioning it. And that’s one question.
We actually have a list of questions that we found that work, and as a group, and we’ve experimented with this true mind process with a small group of people. As a group, we said, “we will all list the questions that have worked for us, and be open about the way that we. . . the counter-mind thought we had and how we question it to make it go away.”
So and you’ll get this part of this program, in a Google Doc, here’s everyone saying, “Here’s one question that worked for me, and here’s an example of how it worked for me in my real life.” You’ll start to see that there are some questions that are used by more people, like “is it true?”, and there are others that are more specific to some people.
Samantha: It really is unlocking, just enormous potential. I imagine with the people that you’ve already coached through this process to help develop the program, that you’ve seen some enormous potential grow – that you’ve seen the results of that. Can you tell us anything about those people and what they’ve seen as a result of it?
Andrew: Yeah. We have a whole list of them somewhere. I’m not crazy about the design of the page. I still want to work on it. I can’t even find the page right now.
Samantha: Another of these I’ve seen a really great video of, and I’m just trying to think. . . is it Sean, or. . . ?
Andrew: Yeah, Sean. So, he’s a great example. He’s someone who e-mailed me and said, “I’ve started to question my counter-mind, and as a result I realized that there were all of these thoughts that weren’t really helpful.” When he signed up, he was in a place where he said, “My company’s doing so well. I’ll try anything! Let’s just try this thing that Andrew’s putting out there.” he tried it, and because of this, he was able to increase his business. He was able to grow his business.
He says that just now talking to him, because he’s not full of this insecurity, he’s communicating confidence. So, people are more likely to buy from him. So, he’s one person.
We had a couple of other people on that webcast that you talked about where, Howard and Nadia, they were each making sales calls. They’re newer entrepreneurs having to call up about their product. And your mind just starts racing with, “Maybe I should hire professionals.” or “Maybe I’m not ready.” – all of that stuff! By dealing with issue, they were able to make their calls and feel freer.
It’s not just about business. Sean actually said that he ran his first marathon last year as a result from this. It’s this little thing that’s inside of us that’s been holding us back. Once we’re aware of it. . . you might not even need me once you’re aware of it, but you’ll find that it helps to have a process for getting rid of it.
And again, I don’t want to make it just about business. We’re at the stage where. . . like, I’m not a big superhero or movie fan, but if this was a superhero story, Lex Luthor would be the counter-mind. We’re spending too much time on Lex Luthor. What you want to do is bring in Superman, your Superman.
The person in your mind that’s going to help your Wonder Woman, is the true mind. The more you emphasize that, the more confident you feel. The more confident you feel in yourself, the more opportunities you’ll start to see around you, and then you’ll start to draw them to you. That’s the hero, the true mind.
Samantha: The more opportunities that just get created as a result of exploring that true mind as well! I know a moment ago you said, “Let’s not just focus on this program.” One of the other things that I think really comes through the Mixergy podcast, and the Mixergy website, is: it is constant reinforcement about people – those who have actually achieved things, that have either started from nothing, or who have started from little, who have achieved extraordinary things as well.
I think that that’s something that, I guess, opens your mind to what’s possible. Having some of that regular inspiration can help people actually also take action in their own lives. So, I just want to say thank you as well for that website and that program.
There is so much material on there. Not just also for inspiration, but I have found for real, tangible tools to actually help people build businesses. Some of the Jermaine Griggs, I think, is my favorite of all of the master classes on the Mixergy Premium website. It’s just about how to completely automate your business, and how to automate sales, and so on, that so many organizations will benefit from. I think it’s a wonderful, wonderful program.
Andrew: Well, thank you. Yeah, I work hard on it, and it’s not just me. It’s a team. A moment before you and I start a recording – there was Anne Marie in the room saying, “You know what? I think I need to quietly work here,” and she went outside while we talked to quietly work.
I bring that up because she’s one of the people who brings those interviews out. We have so many others who do it, and we’re proud of the results. We’re happy that it’s working out for you.
Samantha: It is, thank you so much, Andrew. I really want to congratulate on the program. Again, our listeners can actually find you at “Truemind@mixergy.com”.
Andrew: Yeah, let’s do that. Actually, would it help if I even just created a. . . no, let’s use that email address. In the future, what I should do is create a place, at least, for someone who’s interested to come and get it. But I’m intentionally thinking: I’m not looking to promote this, to be honest.
If you look at the True Mind homepage, there’s no way for strangers to register. I want to keep it as our own little community of people who we care about, who we know, who we help, and then we can start reaching out beyond it.
Samantha: Look, to be honest, it wasn’t my intent to promote the program, so much as. . . I just know how much it’s going to help people get to that next step in their career. I just know how so many people are being held back by this, and I want them at least to start being aware of it. At least, to make themselves familiar so that they can take just one step that’s going to get them to the next level. And I’m so grateful for the work that you do.
Andrew: Thank you.
Samantha: Really, it’s fantastic – you and your team. So thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us about that today, Andrew. I really appreciate it.
Andrew: Thank you.
Samantha: Thanks. See ya.